SPEAKER_01 0:00

We gained weight this week. Do we panic? We considered it. And we chose growth. Hate that for us. Born This Way starts now. Welcome to Born This Way, a weight loss podcast exploring the identity whiplash of untangling a lifetime of body shame. And realizing a smaller size doesn't quiet the bully in our heads. So pull up a chair. Preferably not anything plastic or a brickety stool.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

A quick note: we're not doctors or dietitians. The show is for entertainment only, and all views are personal and our own. So don't sue us. Please. Good thing we've been practicing our British accent. Because I've been I've been using Chat GPT dictate so much that it was like, I don't know when you're talking to me or you're asking it. So I agreed that I would start speaking to Chat GPT in a British accent. So then I absolutely love this. That was my suggestion. Man, only I benefit. You're brilliant. And only you benefit from it. And my whole family suffers. Jokes on them 90% of the time I'm not talking in a British accent.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Well, this week, I I think when this is published, this will be just past Easter. Yeah. And what it's just past right now is Lisa's 40th birthday, which was just this past Tuesday. Right? It was Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Yes. Right. Yeah. Can you tell? I didn't implode.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

And look at you, you don't look a day over 39 still. So perfect. You know how hot you are, I tell you all the time. Um how was the four? You know, we had talked on the podcast, we had, you know, of course, big dreams, but um, you know. Those big dreams sometimes meet reality. So we've had the Disney Cruise conversation on this podcast. Okay, people know what they're dealing with here.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

You know I I'm really I had a really good day and I'm glad, but I'm glad it's over because or I'm glad it like came. I was really happy on the day up because there was something weird all of a sudden that month that got like it's the last day of the month. And so all month I I've always been a big birthday girl, like hashtag only child in the house. And so March, I'd be like, it's my birthday month on March 1st. And so we go. This year, it was like a really long month thinking about that because I felt like I had some something like I was running out of time, is how it felt. And it felt weird. And I was like, I don't know, kind of like existentially worried. But like once it came, I was like, oh, okay, that's what I was worried about. I was worried about like that something was, I don't know, gonna happen or change. And as to quote my five-year-old, I asked her the morning of if I my I looked any different. She goes, nope, your face looks exactly the same as yesterday. Cute as always. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

That is so adorable. You know, she and I rehearsed that so many times.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I believe it.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

No, no way, man. That's the kind of beautiful children you're raising. How about it? I mean, isn't that just a lovely thing to hear from your child on your 40th birthday? I absolutely love that for you, honey. I love it for you. And you are, as you know, effervescent. You're so beautiful. Um, and I think the 40th birthday is a big deal. I think there's a lot of like societal, cultural, right? Like it's a thing, right? Like I feel like we put some weight on that one. Sorry, I don't mean to use a weight analogy, but we like like we put something into that, right? Like it is, I don't know. It's just almost better to just be like, okay, it's over. I'm actually 40 now. Turns out, right? Like we know these horrible things, right? Like, I don't know. It just feels like such a loaded one. So yeah. Anyway, yeah. But I'm glad that I'm glad that you survived.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Thanks. Yay. And uh I I did, I had a knockout, well, I was gonna say had a knockout meal and overeat. So yeah. Oh, talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

So this is like um, this is I'm into this. I want to hear all about it. Tell me how you had the knockout meal. I want all the details.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Well, there's a lot of the meal is really great and delicious. And um I like I don't I had a moment where I stopped and was like, oh, this is where I could overeat. And then I said, which like like a break almost in my brain that was like, oh, okay, we're full. Um and I and I have had that in the past, but like this was really loud, and I was like, I could be totally fine stopping, like physically, mentally, emotionally. And I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna. And like I've done that before and been so like guilt-ridden the entire time. But it was so weird because it was like I made kind of a conscious choice to like overeat a little bit. I am on GLP one. I cannot massively overeat the way I used to, or I make myself very sick. Um, and it's just not as it's just not as pleasant as even if it as it was before. Like I cannot get away with it in the same way. Um fascinating and really great, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Like, God, what a great part of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yes, yeah, but I can still do it, I can still eat past the thing with that is like I can stop and feel way more satisfied than I used to before. But I also am capable and the same mentally things are still there where it's like I still I could still go a little further. And so I did that. And then I got up and went to use the restroom and I came back, and they uh my husband had called ahead about it being a birthday, and they had brought a cheesecake after I had overeat my food, not even wanting to order a dessert because I knew my kids I had bought like boxed cake to make with them at home. So I knew I was gonna have like a tiny piece of shitty boxed cake, which is fine. It wasn't shitty, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Say, ma'am, I can throw it on some shitty boxed cake.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Okay, and have it was funfetti. Funfetti is my favorite flavor because I'm shitty boxed cake. Funfetti with whipped cream cheese frosting, like an adult.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Right, like a grown ass lady.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Okay, we 40 now. Exactly. Yeah, they were like, no, the he um they had asked about the cheesecake, and it was honey lavender or fruity pebbles. So I'll let you know which one. You could guess which one my 40-year-old asked guys. Fruity Pebbles. Was it the honey lavender? Yeah, no. Right. Fruity pebbles for sure. No, somebody with I don't know. Like a refined palette.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Listen, that's a good way to put it. Listen, and that might be you, but that can tell you for sure what this girl would have ordered, and it's fucking fruity pebbles all the way.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Okay, go ahead. You know, they crush it up into the cheesecake crust as well as it being inside the cheesecake. Oh my god, my mouth might actually have watered when you said that.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Do you know when I was Oh, sorry. There was Is it about fruity pebbles? Yes. Go. Oh, just when I was pregnant, I I had one and only one craving the entire time I was pregnant. I never had any weird pregnancy cravings, but all of a sudden, I was probably it's probably like I was probably uh seven and a half months pregnant. So it's pretty far down the line.

unknown 8:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And I was sitting in, just calmly sitting in my living room, no big deal. I think we might have even been watching Breaking Bad. It was kind of that era of time when it was like on live. And all of a sudden I was like, I cannot go on without fruity pebbles. I need them immediately. Immediately. Uh I told my ex-husband at the time, I need these like now. Please go to the store and retrieve some fruity pebbles for your girl. Because I'm seven and a half months pregnant. He didn't go. So I went myself because I had to have them. So I would absolutely destroy a piece of Fruity Pebbles cheesecake. I know I would. Was it like silent?

SPEAKER_00 8:46

The colored milk when it's like. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I don't, just because I'm not a drinking cereal milk girly. I don't drink it out of any of them. I understand that is a big thing for a lot of people. It just was never a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Oh, is it? Okay, good. It's not just milk.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Yeah, a lot of people will drink their milk after their cereal.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah. It was incredible. But before that, there was like this salad that I woke, I want to go back to this place for this salad. It was like a bunch of vegetables that for refined palates, you would not think that I would enjoy. But the way it was just like very what's the verb? Very vinegary, very acidic. Like it was a Brussels sprout salad and had like zucchini and okra. And it tasted so great. It tasted so great. And then my meal was a tortellini short rib. God. It was very good. I had it at the farmer's market at one point, and I needed to go back and get it. So anyway, the meal was really good. And I have not recognized it. It really was. And I had a lot of repeated meals at home for a long time. Like I eat a lot of the same stuff over and over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's easier for me to lose weight that way.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Sure. Yeah, it becomes just a it absolutely becomes like a pattern, a routine. Like it's the easy button, right? I know how much these are, I know that they're feeling. I know how they feel in my body. I like them, whatever. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So what a cool novel experience that you got to have on your birthday. Yeah. It was awesome. And I really, it was weird because I didn't feel bad, even though I it felt unpleasant to overeat. It was one of the first times I've ever like consciously overeat and not immediately been racked with guilt. It was, I didn't put, I didn't think it was that big a deal. And even later I was like, I don't feel great, but I know I'm not going to be eating very much tomorrow. Right. So hope so kind of like it'll level out. And it's like, yeah, did it slow down my weight loss? I yeah. Yes. Because it probably pulled me out of whatever. Not a doctor. My glycogen stores probably, you know, whatever happened, I wasn't expecting to see any loss in the days following that. Um and it was weird because I was like, Yeah. I've been thinking more about that. Like if normies sometimes do that too. They're like, oof, over ate a little bit, better take it easy. This is a conversation I have with my husband. I was like, Are you like it? And he's like, Yeah. It's like I overeat, so I'm gonna take it easy for a couple days. I heard Bebe say that once in like a podcast with Chris that he was like, because he's you know, and he when Chris asked him some modeling questions, he was like, it was the first time I heard somebody say that. Where he's like, Oh, I don't if I ate a little bit, then it's just like it just probably levels out in the next day or two. And so it was weird because I had that experience on my birthday, where it's like I've also thought before, like, do I want to lose weight on this vacation? Do I want to lose weight on this birthday? Of course. So I'm gonna make sure I stay in a deficit. And I consciously overindulged without guilt. It was really a trip that I was okay with it and I still am right now because I know it's happening anyway.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

How about it?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

What a fucking shift is that, right? Not to celebrate overindulgence, right? No, I I will celebrate it though. I will celebrate it. And the reason I'm gonna celebrate it is because I mean, first of all, what a lovely realization that you've had, right? That you're like, you know, every other time I would have been beating myself up, I would have been so fucking mad about it, right? Or I would have like, I would have had this, like I would have thrown this. My brain would have thrown a big fit about all the things. Um, but instead of like feeding into that like shame spiral or whatever, which we know like perpetuates this restrict and binge and restrict and binge and restrict and binge cycle, right? Like you do have to have moments of indulgence. You cannot. I mean, I d I I've seen people who have, and I again I I celebrate all bodies of all sizes and all approaches to whatever life you live that makes you feel the best in your body. But I just I've seen people who've done like a full abstinence diet, and I feel like for me, that is a that's a I'm in a white knuckle for the rest of my life, and that does not sound fun to me. So there has to be room in this life for just like you talked about, that normies do this sometimes too. That's normal regular occurrence, and so the fact that you have such a level head about it and that you didn't beat yourself up about it, and that you do recognize that this is just you know, you're not doing it every day, but you didn't you also didn't get up the next morning and punish yourself attacking it. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Isn't that interesting? And then I um I was watching a message from you Carrie has a share cast, as one would call it. It's one to many, so it wasn't direct to me. I was I was feeling that and reflecting on it, and like that next day I listened to you share that you had some the scale had moved up for you and you this last week and you had had an interesting emotional experience around it as well. And so I don't know, it just felt very like almost serendipitous in a way. Yeah, that we both had similar experiences. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Absolutely. And this is great too because this will also give me an opportunity to talk about something that was pretty significant for me this week, too.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Oh, yes, please. I didn't even get to address that with you personally yet. Yes. Yeah, how have I? I'm excited. Yeah, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I I was I'm not gonna let's do it. Let's do it. Because it was it took my breath away too, that part of it. I was like, oh, what now she say? One mouth or no?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yeah. As regular podcast listeners would know, I am training for a triathlon and um Justin Bieber, my my coach and trainer, um, who I love and adore and is very much a normie. I don't even think you can call him a normie. He's like a super normie. Okay, so um so Beebs uh was like, okay, well, uh so I I had just finished one of my workouts. I went until the gym was actually closed, so I didn't have time to get a longer run in. But I said, I'm gonna go for a longer run, probably Sunday or Monday. And he said, Yeah, great. Why don't we, the next logical step seems to be a you know, a 10K. And I was like, sir, some what? Like, I'm like, no, like that's not the next logical step, you absolute fool. Like I the most I've ever run is four miles, and that was only one time. And that was because I was pushing myself, and Beebs and I had talked about me doing like a longer push run, maybe every 10 to 12 days. Four miles straight? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I only did it one time, just the one time. And I mean, I was so excited when I did it. You're so conditioned right now. Uh so I'm like, I don't think I'm ready for six miles, sir. Like, I did four miles one time. And he's like, Well, if it's a negotiation, how about five? I'm like, okay. And then my mind, I'm like, I'm only gonna go for four miles. Like, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go for four miles. And then I look at my training worksheet and he texts me that day and he's like, if five miles, like five miles today. In my head, I'm just resisting it already, right? Like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to go five miles. So I got real in my head about it, and um, and I was just real scared. And I even texted him as I was setting out and said, I just want you to know, full disclosure, I'm really terrified of this. Um, I've only ever run four miles once. This feels really unattainable for me. And I know that I I need to not feel this way for in order for this to be successful, right? Like I know how this works. I know that if I have it in my mind that I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna fail. Like, that's I get it. This the neuroscience of this is not lost on me. So I'm there going, like, God damn it, stop thinking that I need to be positive. And so I was really getting into a positive mindset. I mean, so stupid, but I was thinking about how like I couldn't wait to to send Bebs a video message when I was done because he'd be so proud of me that I actually went and conquered it. I really, for a second, let myself think I could do it, right? Like, and I got really excited about it, and then I couldn't do it. Um, so I stopped at 4.4 miles, um, which is technically a failure. The goal was five. I went 4.4, I failed. I failed my objective. And I had big, big feelings about it out there. And I told Bebs this later. Like I was made a video journal to myself, and I was crying and snotting. Like I was just real big mad about him daring to think that I should even try this and mad at myself, and just real big feelings, lots and lots and lots and lots of tears. And I had the help of a a couple of friends, but it was like a a reframe moment, right? Where it's like, okay, yeah, I have failed, and that's okay. I'll try for five again. I'll try for it again, and I'll keep going, and eventually I know I'll get there, right? Because there was a time when going for two miles seemed like there's no way I'd never be able to run two miles straight without stopping. Like, that's not gonna happen for me. I need you to know that I um just this week did this long run on Monday and then on Thursday, it was just to gonna go from my morning jog two miles like it was nothing. Right. But I had this big crazy emotional reaction about not getting the five, and then I need to reframe this, right? Like I might not have hit the five, but I went 4.4 miles. That's the longest I've ever run. And eventually I'll get to five. I'm gonna get there. It was humbling and it was hard, and it was also really exhilarating to feel that surge of like, I mean, my body, I even I was texting Bebs out there. I was like, is my body supposed to feel like it feels right now? Because I'm scared. Like I was honestly scared for a reason. When you were running, ma'am. I was like 40 minutes in zone five heart rate is what I did on that. Like 40 minutes. 40 minutes for four. Yes, at zone five. You were working hard. Oh my God, my body was exhausted. And he he said he's like, Yes, it's gonna feel like you're a rocket taking off. You're about to launch. Like that's how it's going to feel. And it did. Like I felt tingly, crazy, just weird physical sensations. But I've never felt those before because I've never pushed my body to these limits before, right? So of course I'm like, oh fuck, this is I gotta stop right now.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I need to just think because I was like, you didn't stop because you were like so close and gave up. It sounded like you pushed your body to the absolute limit. Yeah. Which is insane that 4.4 miles. Yeah, I was taken aback by that accomplishment. I understand the framing around that specific goal was not met. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but still what it's really on for sure. Yeah, listening to you, I was like, no, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you. That's so I am amazed that there are not a lot of people at any weight that could go run 4.4 miles right now. Yeah. Carrie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

I mean, that's very true. You're such a you're such a good hype girl. I just love you so much. So my lot that long run was on Monday. I've I've taken to swimming Tuesday nights at the gym because it's no one else is there, so it's like I have the whole pool to myself. Lovely. Um, so I'm texting Beebs like, hey, look at me. I did my 4.4 miles yesterday and look at me. I'm gonna still go do my thousand-yard swim tonight. And he goes, do a jog after. Like, fucking rude. So I came home at 9 p.m., came inside, took off my swimming shit, put on my jogging shit, and went outside and jogged.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Around the neighborhood at nine at night? Yeah, at nine o'clock at night. Yeah, I did it.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

I only went for 10 minutes because that's all I had to do. Anyway, he's got some real fucking nerve, is what I'm trying to say. This motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Sure does. Listen, how many days to the triathlon?

SPEAKER_01 20:53

It's June 20th. So I've got like two months in change. All right. It's coming. It is. It's coming for sure. And the bike is the part that I'm the most nervous about. I feel great now about the running. I'm like three miles I know I can do. Uh the swim is on fucking lock. So I gotta get this biking going. The problem is I got my bike back from the bike shop, but I've really only had time to do like two good outdoor rides because the weather's been real dicey.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Didn't you just get that bike last year? Uh yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

A year, year and a half ago. Yeah, I just I just took it in for a tune-up. Oh, I don't know how bikes work. Thank you. I don't either. That's why I take it in for a tune-up. They're probably like, sure. And then they're like, tell her we tuned it up. Brand new bike. Like, no, remember, you have to have it tuned in every bike there. Yeah. Support your local small bike job. Yeah, there you go. Anyway, the bike is the part I'm most worried about. But okay, so the reason I went on that long fucking story was to say this I am so close to the the triple digits number, right? I'm real close to 100 down. So, so, so close. And then what happened was after I went for that 4.4 mile jog, and I told Beebs, like I hydrated like a fucking crazy person that day. I think I drank more than a gallon of water that day. Um, which is, you know. Yes, like in just doing it before and in recovery, right? I had a liquid IV, did all the things. Um, but the next morning I stepped on the scale and I was up three pounds. Mm-hmm. And um, and I my brain threw a big fucking fit about it. Big fit. And here's the here's the thing that's that kills me is that like I know the science behind it. It like the way that I pushed my body was exhausting. Yeah. Um, of course, my body's like inflamed. Like I just pushed it to its limits. And so it's holding on to water for dear life. So all those five, that gallon of water that I drank, like my muscles are holding on to that shit because they're like, God damn, we need some water to repair this shit. And I know that that's how the science works. If it worked, if it was as simple as I go on long jog and next morning scale drops two pounds, people would go on long jogs all the time because there's like instant results, right? Very primitive. Like our brains are like, I jog, I jog, jog, weight drop, more jog, more weight drop, right? Like it'd be real great if it was just as easy as that.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Right. But of course it's not. When you get close to those big milestones, those significant numbers. Every day I, in my experience, get on, I'm like, this could be the day. Yeah, this could be the day. And then if it's I'm three away and then I'm six away, yeah, I would have a jolt reaction as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah. First of all, I don't know what you're thinking, Scale, but this ain't it.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Like, what I do all that work for yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Wait, I'm sorry. It's weird too to like intermediate. I ran 4.4 miles, bitch. Act accordingly. And she sure didn't. She's like, here's three pounds. I found them. Here you go. You have them back. My brain wanted to throw a fucking fit about it, but then I was like, wait, the this is about the long game. Yeah. And what I said to myself in that moment, which is something that you and I have talked about on the show, and something that I have talked about on my own TikTok page, is who gets to use the word athlete?

unknown 24:22

Right?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah. Who gets to use that word? And um, I think that part of this is why I actually like the reframe that I gave myself, which was if it was instant gratification, everyone would do it. This is where the athletes stay in the game. Right. And part of becoming an athlete is understanding that when you push your body, you're gonna see some fluctuation in the scale. I didn't, I ate in a calorie deficit that day. For sure, a calorie deficit, when you factor in the amount of calories that I must have burned in my near-death experience out there on that fucking trail. Absolutely. So I know that I didn't really gain those three pounds, right? It's just, it's just my body trying to hold on to that to repair itself. And it was a great reframe for me because what I really love, I mean, what I really, really love. Okay, so I have these sort of, I don't know if they're guilty pleasures, but they're like things uh I I love to hear as a lifelong fatty, right? Like things that are just like fucking catnip to me. One of them is when a man tells me that I'm hot. I cannot. It's so gross. I hate it. That's why it's a guilty pleasure, right? We've gotten some comments even on our one of our socials about feminist critiques of kind of our our lane, our vibe, and the fact that and I know that, right? Like the fact that I get so excited if a if a man thinks that I'm hot, it's so gross. And I would, I mean, when a man calls me beautiful or hot, both of those hit for me, right? That's all I've ever wanted was to be perceived as someone who is hot or beautiful. Because I've never felt like that applied to me. So when someone says that to me, I'm like, my God.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Right, right? And isn't that like and it's so like it's so wild too, because it's like your values can be cannot be in alignment with something like deep. Not at all. I don't I don't know, like I don't want to say like misogyny and patriarchy, but it's like we could say those things about We absolutely could. That's the male gaze. That's me wanting to earn the male gays to earn the I know, but it's literally the fact that it's you you don't have to apologize for your biology that it turns you on or that you like it. Cause same girl. Right. But it also is like there's a part in my heart that's like, oh, I'm there then. Is that the marker? Finally, that's the marker.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

I've finally arrived. Use that you think I'm hot.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

It's very crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Okay, now I can exist in the world, right? Yeah, it's a real push and pull. Which I think speaks to the whole fucking podcast, right, ma'am. Like, yes, it's the identity shift and all of that craziness that comes with it. So the reason I brought that up is because the other thing that's like a guilty pleasure catnip thing for me is to say, I'm an athlete.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah, you are.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

I cannot tell you how joyful it makes me to refer to myself as an athlete.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Like, so are you proud of yourself? Oh god. I feel like you believe it. I can tell you believe it. So proud of myself. Okay, good. Yes, yes. Because I'm like so, so, so proud. I f I'm so I would be, I know we both talked about struggling with like feeling like we deserve things. We talked about that last week. And it's like, I'm hearing that you believe that you're seeing the truth of what you're doing. Yeah. And that you're being that you are very conditioned and very athletic, and that you are in every sense of a word, more than most people an athlete now in this moment today. Yeah. And to how much like this journey for you coming into it for weight loss and then it becoming an identity shift, like becoming like, well, I gained weight this weight because I'm training for a triathlon. It's like what correct.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Like, who the fuck is this lady? Oh shit, that's me. How cool is that?

SPEAKER_00 28:16

How does that make you feel like it's gonna be more sustainable because every corner of your life is being touched?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I think what I've come to realize is my friend Clint said it really well this week when he talked about the weight being a symptom of something else.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Just it's why I don't like to didn't like being seen as an overweight person. I didn't I don't know, it goes back to the body positivity thing where it's like, I hate to say this, but it's like I for me it was a symptom of pain. And I had to admit it by wearing it on my body and having people see me. And I was like, they're gonna know I'm weak.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, clearly the weight is a symptom of some deep-seated issues. And so when I started this journey, I was really trying to address my weight. But what I've come to realize is it's all the other issues that I need to address. We've heard our coach say this a number of times. It's like patching a hole in a boat versus bailing water out of the boat. All our diets were uh bailing. Yes. Because you're not fixing the holes in your boat, you're just bailing out water, but you're taking on more water constantly. Gotta fix the structural issues, gotta fix the integrity. Right. I'll get to them once I get all this water out of this boat. Then things will be easier to handle the patches. That'll work. Yeah, and I mean, how many times have you heard people, even in our community, say, Yeah, I lost a bunch of weight and then I still wasn't happy? Turns out it wasn't the weight. The weight was the symptom of the larger problem. So last week we talked about that show with Jillian Michaels, surrounded by all those body positivity folks. We've gotten some feedback from you, listeners, about your some of your thoughts. It seems like there's a lot of people who had a lot to say. At least you were just mentioning that like when you were feeling body positive, there was always that part of you that felt like it was an outward expression of clearly some things inside of you that don't feel good. Yeah. So since that show came out, I've been seeing a bunch of stuff now about the whole body positivity movement. And yeah, there was this article published in the New York Times like six weeks ago. It's this woman who used to be a body positivity like influencer. Her name is Gabriella Lascano. And she, first of all, speaking of the male and female gaze, she's incredibly beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Holy moly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, she's a knockout for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Um, and she basically said she has changed her mind about the body positivity movement and no longer affiliates with it because she thinks that it was very minimizing and uh that loving yourself at any size, she said became an excuse for her to ignore how big she was getting. So it almost became this like um toxic positivity.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Like the the origin of the body positivity movement. This is complicated because we're not in disagreement with why it exists.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Right. Right. My gosh. I just went down this rabbit hole when I found this New York Times article and started going through all of this. I found a content analysis that that these researchers did of Lizzo's Instagram account. I mean, it was fascinating research. So they did like her? Yes, they did an uh they actually did a content analysis of both the things that she posted. So like they would code it as like, is this a body positive thing? Is this celebrating a larger body? Like what so what kind of theme? And and so much of what she posted cast, you know, larger bodies in a positive light, right? Like she was very body positive in the pictures that she posted, where the negativity came in, of course, you know from our friends at YouTube, is the discourse surrounding it, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Hey, it's blood over on a TikTok now. They have found us everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Oh, that's right. They're yeah, they're coming out of the woodwork everywhere now.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Did you see how the train people they came for me?

SPEAKER_01 31:54

They sure did. They're like, listen, they got some, they got some opinions.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah. So the so the content analysis was, of course, of the of the comments, and so many of them were like vomit reactions or fat shaming. So anyway, I've gone down this rabbit hole of like doing this, you know, research about public opinion and stigma and how the stigmatization of it can lead to worse outcomes than the actual obesity itself because it leads to so many other terrible things. But we yes, Lisa. We this is why we like I feel like last week we we were trying to say, like, this is it is such a nuanced and complicated landscape. My understanding from the reading that I've done is that we're maybe trying to move into body neutrality. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

I was gonna ask you about that phrase as well, like the body positivity versus body neutrality. Right. Like not hating yourself, period. Yeah. And then that gives you permission to change things about yourself to lose weight if you choose to, without doing it through the lens of hating yourself. It's such a fine line. It is so nuanced. Like even her notes say body positivity versus health, and my brain is like, it's not body positivity is health. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

It's a real tricky territory. This woman says, for her, the biggest issue she had was inside the body positivity movement, there was no, there was no um acceptance of people who wanted to change their bodies. So you could be a part of the body positivity movement, but not if you wanted to lose weight. It was not socially acceptable to both be affiliated with a movement about body positivity, but also acknowledge that you want to make changes to your body, which is exactly where these two have to intersect. I ha I've said this so many times. Like I had to love my body before I could want to change it. They they're so intertwined, I feel.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I know. It's so complicated. I feel like we're so heavily focused on Jillian decimating, you know, the people on there for various reasons, like whether it be editing or the people they picked or the topics, whether it was fair or not. But we left out the part of like that the body positivity activists come from a place of like they're gonna be very polarizing their opinions. So, but I feel like the movement as a whole, logically, uh body positivity or neutrality is not saying that respect equals endorsement of weight gain. Like that that's not when they're asking for respect, they're not also asking that you go and gain weight. But a lot of people are not educated on those things. I know someone in my personal life who read a book called The Fuck It Diet and told me they read it and were so relieved by what it said and then binged ate for a month. And that's not what the book instructs, but that's how this person who has struggled with emotional eating dealt with though that messaging. Like it's it's complicated. It's not black or white. I know the message in that book is geared toward intuitive eating. Right. And that is a topic that, you know, when I was seeing a health at every size provider was brought up to me immediately. And I was very upset by because, like your five-mile run, I was told to buy a box of softies donuts and keep them in my home. And the exact thing that I told her would happen happened when I did that. And then I was very upset. And sh her saying, like that that's part of the process, however, that process is for that specific dietitian I was seeing. I ended up stopping going because I found I was pregnant and I was sick and couldn't eat much anyway. So it wasn't a time to me to be addressing that. Um I felt like I was I wasn't gonna sit through that. The assignment was to keep the softies in the house, right? Yeah, maybe one a day, maybe one every couple days. And I was like, that's not gonna happen. And then I went and proved her, proved myself right. And I was, I was like, I don't have time for this shit. Cause she's like, oh, this is a process like that happens a lot. And I'm like, oh, does it? Did we have to go through that process? And I'm su I I I've never I didn't stick with it, so I can't speak to it. But like that's my coloring of it. And that's the person in my life who read that book. Like, I'm damaged. My wiring has been crossed with food and diet. And when you tell me I don't have to worry about it, it's very black or white for me. And that's where I really struggled with that movement. And I know that's not what they mean. They're not saying I should binge or gain weight, but that is what I did because I felt like it gave me permission. And I feel like people who haven't struggled with their weight think that's what it's doing too. So I don't want to like ignorse the haters, but I had more work to do than being able to start at just a fuck it diet or put the softies in the house.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

I agree with you. I do think that it creates an acceptance, which can potentially lead to increased weight gain because you are so accepting. And that is also a nuanced and tricky area, right? So in reading about this, I did find former influencers who are just saying exactly these things, right? But also the biggest issue I think many of them had was that they were real hostile about people who had even like health goals, right? Like weight loss related goals, but also just health goals, period. Um, but also now we're we are in an age right now of so much body discourse with GLPZs. Like there's just constant chatter about how they're changing the game, they're changing the dynamic, they're changing expectations.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah. I mean, look at we talked about it before in the show. Lizzo's posts, Lizzo was Lizzo is a huge face of this movement. Yeah. Lizzo is losing a lot of weight. Megan Traynor was a face of this movement. She is no longer overweight. Right. So when those we lose those voices, whether they admit it or not, we think we've lost them, that it makes it hard for the the table to stand on all its legs, because those were our like public supporters. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

And we took I remember even when we talked about it, and we're like, God, this feels really gross because it's like we are commenting on these people's like we're commenting on Lizzo's desire and and choice to take a GLPZ, which is her choice, right? So all of this is such it's such a mess. Like it's so tangled. It's real, real tangled. Um it does feel also like body positivity is about promoting acceptance, but I've also been reading a lot about the GLP one culture, might be leading people to say, Well, why aren't you doing something about it if you know GLP ones exist? So clearly now you are choosing it because there's a there's a medical intervention.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

The haters who were mad when it first came out because you know, how your bodies look is um societal currency. Being thin is societal currency. So when they realized that that was getting spread around because it's very important to them and they were mad about it, I feel like those are the same voices who are now like, well, why is that one still fat? I love that sound. How dare you to, how dare you not?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Right. Like, don't you know there's a there's a fucking, there's a there's an injection, there's a thing you can do for that, right? And it's been proven to help. So why are you not doing that? Um, so there's a real conflict here between like health versus acceptance, right? Science over societal perceptions. Um it's just a re it feels like a real cultural tug of war. So what I would love, I mean, it'd be great if we could just stop fucking talking about it. Like it was just not fucking talking about people's bodies. That would be lovely for me, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:35

It's just this one thing where so many people associate it with personal responsibility that it becomes like, well, whether it's eating too much or taking a GLP1 or moving more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

So this body neutrality approach then is like a I think it's less about like, oh, healthy at any size, more of like a well, your body's just a container. It doesn't prioritize the body in a positive or negative way. It just acknowledges that the body is the vessel for the whatever inside of it. This is gonna get real metaphysical, isn't it? This feels like Neeb's territory.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

I love it. I love it. Because it's like I immediately want to lean into because my whole thing with that was like, oh, it's a temple. It's a the gratitude for it. Like even when I was trying to practice like neutrality, you know, especially after I I became a mom, I was like, oh, oh I was like that doesn't even matter. It doesn't even look at what I I mean, look at what just happened. I was like another life. I was like, look at this big fat body. Look at this cute little baby.

unknown 40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

That did that. That did that. And actually, actually, I was able to do it. And a lot of big people do. Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole other fucking episode.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Well, listeners, what do you think? What do you think about body positivity?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

What it yeah, body neutrality. I'd love to hear from listeners at bornthiswaypod at gmail.com because we're getting a lot of feedback on the ticker talkers, as Carrie calls it. But a lot of that is taken out of context. A lot of it is little portions of what we're saying, and then somebody coming in and either really supporting it, which is awesome, or like a lot of haters, or at least a significant amount of them on little portions of things without the whole context of the show, which is fine. Engagement is engagement. But we really actually care about the opinions of our listeners. So you can email us, you can comment on our Spotify's episodes. We see those comments. We see comments on our Instagram and TikTok and YouTube at Born This Way Pod. The handle on all those.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Yes. And don't forget we also have a VIP club. If you want to join at patreon.com slash born this way pod.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Definitely got something out of this episode that's going in there today. Yeah. Like last week.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Oh my god, last week's was great, wasn't it? We had a good little sneak peek for last week's episode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Lisa, big plans for the Easter weekend. I gotta tackle laundry mountain and hide some eggs. Sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. That's hashtag mom life. Yep. The Easter bunny's coming, so gotta help help him get some shit assembled in a basket. Or three.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yes. I remember the old assembly shit.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

What do you do? Just give him cards or cash now? You've got what, full-run adults over there? Yeah, they're with their dad and stepmom.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

They wouldn't even get back till Monday. So Which is really great because man, I could throw down some fucking Easter candy. Those little Cadbury mini eggs are my arch nemesis.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

You know, my birthday was always around then, so I always brought in and like, you know, bring a treat in the class. It was always like my play every year in elementary school. Bring 30 of those in, 25 of those in. That was always a hit.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Yes, those Cadbury mini eggs can, yeah. They're super.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

I haven't had the mini ones. That sounds like dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Um they're just the candy-coated, the sh little shelled ones, not the one with the stuff in it. Oh, okay. Yeah, they're just chop like they're like Cadbury chocolate covered in a little crispy shell. Oh. But I know what you're talking about. A Cadbury creamy. I'm talking about the cream eggs. Yeah. I can go I can get down with those too. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

They're pretty rich. I I uh in my adult age, I probably couldn't eat much of them. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

But still, the cho the chocolate is so good. And there's little mini eggs are just it's just the chocolate. I remember any. I'm a fat kid. Uh so it's great because my boys won't even be here. So there will be no Easter candy in my house for me to be tempted by. Uh but you know what I love is that they do sell little like mini bags of the of the chocolate, like the little mini eggs that I'm talking about. They sell them in like a little single serve, like a fun size pouch that you can buy at store for like. I don't know, a dollar or something. So it's a perfect serving size. Well, listeners, you've been listening to the Born This Way podcast. Actually, technically, maybe a little bit larger bodies this week. Just for a minute, though. They'll be smaller again soon enough. You know the chaos has not slowed down at all. If anything, I think it's might have increased a bit, but we're rolling with it. Period. Period. I love you.

SPEAKER_00 44:25

I love you. Bye. You've been listening to the Born This Way podcast. Don't miss new episodes. Make sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts. And come hang out with us on social at Born This Way Pod.